Founder Friday Sync: Travis and I cover popular industry trends and topics of the week!

Erik (: 00:09

Okay, it's our end of the week Friday roundup with my guest, you're not my guest, with, we'll just say Travis and Eric, which I think is something, I'm always thinking about what is unique that others can't do that allows us to like.

have our own voice. It's it's rare for you and I to be, for like co-founders to be so engaged, so to speak. Like, I'm sure there's co-founders that are just so polar opposites and they just don't mesh to be able to do shit like this. So anyhow.

Travis Logan (: 00:50

Yeah, I just reading an article about a CEO and CTO's experience together and how the CEO ended up spending all kinds of marketing budget or whatever on cruises and things like that without the CTO even knowing how you get a trust. And obviously, you and I, we've been working together for a long time and trust has always been there and it's never been tested, which is a...

you know, obviously an amazing thing to have on both sides here.

Erik (: 01:24

Well, think that's great. And I will say you look so relaxed, Travis, from that cruise you just got back from.

Travis Logan (: 01:31

Yeah. Company card.

Erik (: 01:35

Okay, so it is February 21st, end of the week, it's Friday. Travis and I are syncing up on what we saw in the industry this week, along with our customers, their successes and struggles. So kicking it off, prop of mind, Travis.

Travis Logan (: 02:01

Top of mind, reporting. There's constant ass with reporting. Reporting's like a Pandora's box, I think, for SaaS companies. I've seen plenty of SaaS companies that keep it extremely short and sweet and you can't dive in to detailed reporting. And it stops, I guess, in its tracks, questions about detailed reporting.

People just get used to the fact of those high level metrics that are made available by the SaaS software and know that they have to live with it. And then on the flip side, you might try to appeal to the other, maybe the 10 % or less of the people who, and which are typically more your mid-market or whatever companies, who more in tuned with these things because they understand the importance.

It's a Pandora's box when you try and really dive in deep and make all these types of reporting metrics and customizations and things like that available to your customers because it's like if you ever watch the show Lost.

every episode you walked away with more questions than you had answers. So we opened that Pandora's box and I'm still glad we did because there is so much information that you can get if you want it in the Just Una reporting platform but there's still new requests being made all the time so we're trying to appease those. An example of a new request is the ability

to report on individual, this is actually not a new request, this is a long-standing one, individual element clicks within a design. So whether you're on frame three and you click button one, and then how does that translate to conversions, attributable conversions, and lead sign-ups and things like that. So that's in the works right now, I'm happy to say.

Erik (: 04:02

So I know that one's, that's been a request for a few years now. What would have been the limitations? Why we haven't built that in? Why are people asking for it?

Travis Logan (: 04:10

Well, on our legacy platform, it was a limitation in the way we aggregated our reporting data. So we aggregated everything at the hour and based on promotions, things like that. And we didn't have raw data that we kept in our reporting database. Everything was...

I don't want get too technical, but it was ETL that's a term used for when you take data from a data lake, for instance, and you pipe it into reporting software, reporting database where you're starting to aggregate it so that it can be reported on faster, technically faster. In our new platform, we don't aggregate this stuff into via ETL or anything like that. We report on the raw data in real time. That makes its own problems from a

a speed to reporting on vast amounts of data. Cause it's just, instead of having say 10,000 records in a day, you might have 10 million records in a day for any particular domain. But we chose to do that because we wanted to be able to, it held us back in our, in our legacy platform. We didn't want that. So we were like, we will, we will work around the performance limitations. We'll solve for that. So now that we can do that, we've been storing the data of what is clicked. It's just been on our roadmap to enable the reporting.

on it, which is what we're finally doing here at our new platform.

Erik (: 05:36

somewhere click house comes in.

Travis Logan (: 05:38

Clickhouse is our reporting database. Yes, that's our analytics database. Yeah.

Erik (: 05:41

Awesome. So who in the last couple weeks who's been asking for this? Like I want to know which CTA was clicked etc.

Travis Logan (: 05:58

Well, the one that comes to mind, I'm not allowed to say the brand, but they are a very, very large brand, actually multiple brands, in the gift card scene. I will just say that.

Erik (: 05:59

It's just ongoing.

Erik (: 06:11

and what are their goals for it?

Travis Logan (: 06:15

For instance, they want to be able to report on which gift card in a series in an Adjust Uno display was clicked on in a single display. They might present several and they want to know which one was clicked on and was that specific card then purchased and of course see the influence attribution there.

Erik (: 06:40

It's kind of one those things where on a landing page with hot jar and different tools, you're able to drill in and learn this stuff, identify, but yeah, heat mapping, but you know, it's, one of those things we've, as we, as pop-ups after 15 years are, are evolving, people are starting to ask, Hey, I want to know what's going on with the interactions inside my pop-up. So we'll be able to provide that.

Travis Logan (: 06:50

Yeah, they do like heat mapping.

Travis Logan (: 07:09

You know, honestly, I...

you mentioning heat mapping in relation to this reporting of individual click elements, I never really put those two together because to me, heat mapping, Hotjar for instance, has always been around tracking mouse movement, right? And yeah, more people will move to this area to click it. But for us, I don't want to get into the game of tracking mouse movement around in a singular design, but we're already tracking the clicks. So we could literally

release a heat map report on a design for where all the clicks are. What I'm doing now is just in more chart and data table format, but we could easily do a cool heat map actual thing, which I think would be pretty sexy.

Erik (: 07:57

Alright, if anyone wants that feature. Let's know so I know another area that that's been popular quizzes. And reporting on those what what's been the hot request in that world?

Travis Logan (: 08:01

Yeah.

Travis Logan (: 08:13

Yeah, that's the other big reporting one. That one's more recent because we've been releasing a slew of quiz features, enabling multi-page dynamic quizzes and...

So of course comes the reporting aspect. Yeah, yes, we can already report and break down in charts and pie charts and other types of things on answers to each specific question, how they're grouped and everything. So, but we have a whole custom reporting mechanism where you can, if we haven't, if we haven't solved for it out of the box, which we put a lot of work in doing it, but that was, this is where I was talking about the Pandora's box. You can go into our custom reports and create them to your

at will. So that part was lacking some specific needs to report on how people are answering questions and quizzes. And a prime example would be a multi-select type question. So think of like check boxes, right? If I ask you what's your interest, please check three, a minimum of three interests that you have here or hobbies.

So you're presented with a bunch of checkboxes and you check three of them. Well, right now we report as a grouped, unique group of them. So if you check these three and two of them overlap with what I checked, right, we're gonna have two very different answers as far as our existing reporting. We're making it.

possible where you can choose between grouping the reports on like that or grouping it based on the individual selected options. So that's getting into the details of it, but...

Erik (: 10:02

So if someone is using quizzes, is this reporting that is expected to be had out of a competitive other quiz software is out there, or is this something that's unique?

Travis Logan (: 10:17

I don't know. I think it's expected by some, possibly. It's certainly been asked for since we released our quizzes and the reporting that we have. Is it asked for often? No, but it's asked for enough and it makes enough sense. If I were to be running personal quizzes, I would want to be able to do that, depending on the quiz.

Erik (: 10:41

Should we move off just now?

Travis Logan (: 10:44

Sure.

Erik (: 10:47

I mean, we've talked about Shopify and Shopify segments, but that pulls us back to just so know.

Travis Logan (: 10:52

You can save that for tomorrow or next week.

Erik (: 10:54

Sure. Clavio announced their CDP and a more public facing. I also read Rick Watson's report on BigCommerce's earnings report. Pretty interesting stuff. mean, BigCommerce is going straight and you know, the writing's on the wall, BigCommerce, without a doubt.

Essentially Rick presents like their hill Mary is B2B It's really interesting because you know, it's when we started just to know is Yahoo stores had what 44 % of the market and then Yeah, then we Chanto Owned it and we watched, you know all these different platforms just get taken over by Shopify and Big commerce was was a leader and now it seems as though

Travis Logan (: 11:26

Yeah.

Travis Logan (: 11:35

yeah, stores. That was funny.

Erik (: 11:51

They've lost the fight.

Travis Logan (: 11:53

Yeah. Yeah. mean, it's a tough, tough fight. mean, they, I'd say this is their second Hail Mary. Their last Hail Mary was the going after the Enterprise division. I, you know, they made it sound like that did really well, but it probably did. But then I think Shopify also went down that path and just basically took that food back away from them. It's sad to see the comments.

Erik (: 12:05

Mm.

Erik (: 12:20

Yeah, I think Rick reported that 99 % net revenue retention with enterprise and it needs to be like 110 at that level.

Travis Logan (: 12:26

Yeah, yeah, it's sad to see. I BigCommerce has been a great partner for a long, long time. They were down the street from us when we were in our Austin office. But yeah, it happens. mean, shoot, remember, before we launched Just Uno, I had created a boutique e-commerce platform.

you know, brand retailers. And I saw the writing on the wall, Shopify was new, and I saw them gaining lots of traction by way of their app store. And I just knew that was writing was on the wall there. I knew better.

Erik (: 13:02

So on that note, one thing I thought that would be kind of interesting is stock tips. Because you and I, we're at the very edge of e-commerce, MarTech. So we see the trends before they exist. I'm still proud of my Shopify stock purchase at $27.

Travis Logan (: 13:22

Let me just stop you. So this is where we're gonna put a notice on the screen that says you are in no way responsible or reliable for any decisions you make in your trading and also There is nothing presented here that is insider trading

Erik (: 13:40

Ooh, yeah, not publicly known.

Travis Logan (: 13:42

Not publicly known. Okay, go ahead.

Erik (: 13:44

You

I thought a firm was going to be my next Shopify, but then the market got wind of it before it IPO'd and they ran the price up. Then it tumbled with everything else, but I think it's back up. Big commerce stock obviously is where it's at. Klaviyo, it's doubled in recent months. It's at 44 right now. I don't see, I don't...

I don't understand why the institutional investors haven't picked up on Klaviyo.

Erik (: 14:23

And then, you what else is out there? Who else is prepping IPO? is?

Travis Logan (: 14:27

Well, mean, Klaviyo is partially owned by Shopify. Right?

Erik (: 14:32

they put and invest. Yeah, I don't know what they put, how much they put in, but they definitely invested into them.

Travis Logan (: 14:34

They're a pretty big investor.

Travis Logan (: 14:39

Yeah, don't know why Klaviyo hasn't ran up quite like the other guys. I would possibly even argue that Klaviyo has a stronger footprint market share wise than Shopify, maybe. But it is a smaller market as a whole. So that definitely would add to it.

Erik (: 15:01

Well, with their CDP, they announced they're going heavier and they have an opportunity to get into the breaking mortars.

Travis Logan (: 15:07

Well, mean Shopify is already in the brick and mortar too though. They got their point of scale and yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyways, I love the CDP stuff that Klaviyo, kudos to them. I did a LinkedIn post on it for at least bringing that publicly to market. I know they've had it for a while, but I'm sure they've made really good advancements in it and gotten a lot more tech partners on board like ourselves in.

Erik (: 15:34

Remember, what was that two years ago? We went down to LA and they, it was pretty clear. Anyone, know, Clavio's history is they didn't have a tech partner program at all. And then they finally got really behind it and we, went down and it's, it was very clear why, because they wanted everyone to integrate with them so they could pull in all the stores data into one holding tank and be the CDP. And you know, a couple of years.

Travis Logan (: 15:37

At least, yeah.

Erik (: 16:03

couple few years later, it's reality. So congrats to them for achieving that.

Travis Logan (: 16:10

Yeah, I imagine your tech partner department is larger than the three people they had when we were at that event. They were proud that they had gotten up to three people. I'm sure it's vastly larger now. Yeah.

Erik (: 16:21

Yeah.

Erik (: 16:27

The, you know, speaking of which, dot digital. We are, I'm going to be attending the dot ski event up in Whistler with the team, which I'm excited about. It's like two weeks. We've been pushing the integration further, I believe. Where are we with that?

Travis Logan (: 16:44

yeah. We have a full integration with them that's released in our new platform. And I believe we're an official integration partner with them at IE. They've put us on their app store, listed us as an app. We went through that process with them. So that's going. That's running.

Erik (: 17:11

Well, since it's gone live, I've heard on Slack, saw different ones with Sung and Derek looking to push even more advanced integration functionality.

Travis Logan (: 17:23

I'm not aware. Not with .digital at the moment, but.

There's always more stuff we want to do. The first step is always us sending them opt-in data, leads we're capturing, subscribing them correctly, all that fun stuff. Something recently we with Yahoo was we're now sending Yahoo product IDs that we recommend via our product recommendation engines so that they can turn around and recommend the same products in emails or whatever, or even SMS messages that they send. So that's pretty cool.

that we are always wanting to do with most of these integrations, if their API supports it, is being able to ingest data from them. So ingesting profile data from them, subscription related data from them, and so forth. So that's always an ongoing kind of task that we're running through with our different integration partners. And then of course, if integration partners have other things like reviews, and that's all on the table as well for integration.

Erik (: 18:23

Yeah, I know with Yotpo, there's like 10 use cases we're looking to build on, whether it's utilizing the Yotpo UTMs for the personalized experience, the Yotpo reviews, embedding the star ratings in the product recs. was one. What was the other show on the best reviews? That's the thing. I am always talking about, hey, how can we recreate the Amazon experience?

Travis Logan (: 18:37

Right.

Travis Logan (: 18:42

Thursday.

Erik (: 18:52

when someone lands on the site and it's using that product rec carousel to pull in recently viewed, know, whatever relates to them, just work to rep, go to Amazon and replicate that experience.

Travis Logan (: 19:07

Yeah. Yep, definitely. Speaking of replicating and stock choices, investment choices and things like that, I was thinking something I wanted to get your opinion on. I saw this wild video yesterday or the day before, a demonstration of Google's AI that's recording your screen.

Erik (: 19:11

See.

Travis Logan (: 19:34

essentially. It's not just, you're not just prompting it questions. You could be, for instance, a developer and you have your coding IDE app open and you're writing code and it's just watching.

all the code you're writing. It can literally stop you. don't even have to prompt it. And it can just be like, hey, by the way, that line you just wrote is prone to this error. Or we could make it more efficient by doing this. That stuff's wild, but what I wanted to really pick your brain on is with AIs how today there are AI LLMs that you can write complete apps for you now.

You can ask them to write you, create you a platform, an application that tracks your bicycling, your whatever, your heart rate, that downloads data from your, you know, your Fitbit and tracks it and models it and things like that. And it will write it for you in seconds or let's say a minute, whatever. No, it's not perfect by any means, but a lot of it too, whether it's, it writes it right the first time doesn't mean you can't.

you know, you can't prompt and say, hey, that's great, but this piece isn't working right, or I envisioned it working this way for this piece, and you work with it for a day or two, and you can get that going well. So this, story short, this is where it's at today. No, you can't tell it to make a just do no ripoff, and it'll just do it. But within five years, probably a lot less, you can. You could say,

Here is my login or just go ahead and create a trial at Klaviyo and recreate me Klaviyo. And it will be able to do this. It will, guaranteed. It's just a matter of time. And I'd say five years max. That's probably just way out, way too far out anyways. So from an investing standpoint, I can't imagine any investors investing in...

Travis Logan (: 21:42

a platform that does not have patents. For that reason alone.

And I wanted to hear what the chair thinks about that idea.

Travis Logan (: 22:02

I hear it coming back. I was really curious what the chair thought about that.

Erik (: 22:10

Okay, so login recreate Klaviyo and

Travis Logan (: 22:15

Well, I don't know if you heard my investor part so from an

Erik (: 22:18

Right at the investors looking for.

Travis Logan (: 22:22

I, if I were an investor, even in the very near future, when this is a lot more possible again, maybe it's two years from now, I can't imagine wanting to invest into a software, any software, SaaS company, any software, doesn't matter. That doesn't have a patent because it is a day away from being replicated.

I'm just curious, like, you've ever thought, first of all, did you know we're even as far as we are being able to create apps with AI?

Erik (: 22:55

Well, through you experimenting with, you know, assisting you with building integrations, we know that's there with Claude, the ability to, you know, I him write a conversion calculator for me that we can embed onto the site. You know, it's only a matter of time. So my thoughts on that is what are you investing in? You're investing into the minds of the humans. Don't turn her.

Travis Logan (: 23:10

Right.

Travis Logan (: 23:23

the team.

Erik (: 23:25

You know how, cause code can only, yeah, you know, it's replication. it's taking, look at just soon has been ripped off. many times by companies in India? Remember early on they like straight up stole all of our content.

Travis Logan (: 23:27

The vision.

Travis Logan (: 23:38

Mm-hmm.

Travis Logan (: 23:43

But we realized, I mean, granted our support's better, obviously, but we also realized, and it fueled us to just out innovate them. That's the AI is gonna.

Erik (: 23:51

So then.

And that's where the comp, that's where the entrepreneur comes in, like investing into the mind that is thinking up the next thing. Cause the AI can only replicate and the team behind it who's leveraging that tool, you know, there's always been, that has always been part of the market. It's all about time to market. who can capture as much of the market first wins. And so it is just another,

Travis Logan (: 24:20

Mm-hmm.

Erik (: 24:25

Another aspect of the game, think is what it's going to be. mean, look at where we are today. Like you and I both are amazed that people are still launching pop-up companies. Like we still see new competitors rising up and they're able to, gain some traction because the, the entrepreneurs behind it have recognized there's a, there's a narrow aspect of the business that they can go after.

and be a one trick pony. So I think it's the one trick pony is really, you know, what you have. And if you can, you know, win that first race, you can, you can get a win and get out.

Travis Logan (: 25:09

That's how I refer to the Tesla Plaid. It's a one-trigger pony. I'm a car guy, the Plaid is an extremely fast car. But if you've ever sat in one, unless you like that minimalistic flat...

experience, an IKEA feel to it. That's all it is. It is not meant to do anything else really. But anyways, that's what I-

Erik (: 25:42

No, no, not anyways. Let's talk about cars because I've been wanting to go electric. Haven't yet the.

Travis Logan (: 25:51

You gotta just get a Pulsar. It's only a quarter million dollars for their latest best one.

Erik (: 25:57

So I've narrowed it down to the Ford F-150 Lightning.

Travis Logan (: 26:05

Cool trick. Yeah.

And I think you can use that one as a backup generator for your house. Like they built it so you could like reverse plug it into your house and use that battery to power your house. That's pretty cool.

Erik (: 26:12

Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, with the upgraded connector, which is not that's interesting. It's like a feature set that I'm not interested in. like they tried to sell me on that. It's not really. Yeah, but so my shopping experience has been really interesting and I will say, you know, the often refer to the auto industry for for promotions. They understand how to sell, how to retail.

Travis Logan (: 26:28

Yeah, they should make that a value add.

Erik (: 26:45

And, know, I waited for president's weekend this last Monday to see what promotions they had. You know, I knew they're going to, and now I know if I'm not going to make the purchase, have an upcoming holiday that they're going to have another promotion for. So reminding retailers to always think about their website as a storefront and just drive down the freeway and look at what the car dealerships are doing and think about replicating that. The second thing is.

You know, I'm leveraging, I love a good deal. So I'm leveraging the different car dealerships against themselves. And I have like five tabs open right now with different dealerships. There is one that when I go to it, shows me a pop-up that says, still interested in the lightning flash. Click here to look at it. So I'm a return visitor and they know what I'm interested in.

They've stored my data. I have a profile on me. So when I go there, I immediately can get to the truck I want.

Travis Logan (: 27:53

Yeah, I mean that's they're doing something right there. You know, the first point, yes, they the the holiday discounts that you know, everybody knows with car dealerships they do and they do very right. But I will play devil's advocate for a second and say how you're waiting till the next holiday to make your purchase.

That's something brands are very conscious about avoiding that instilling that mindset into their customer base. So it's a, you know, it's a fine line that you want to walk in. There's a lot of things that might be a great thing depending on your sector, your industry, your brand, your product. Might be a terrible thing depending on it. But yeah, that's always something you have to be sensitive to is not, not.

especially if you have repeat customers who you don't want them to wait until the next deal. Unless that's how you build your model around. But that's cool. I can't wait to take a spin in the Ford Lightning. Yeah. Well, regardless, I'll be stuck in my car for some time, but I'm sure my next car will probably be electric when the time comes.

Erik (: 29:02

Well, I'm not committed.

Travis Logan (: 29:14

And I have solar panels and everything, I don't drive far. It all makes total sense.

Erik (: 29:21

Yeah, talk about, well then the whole purchase aversion is that, you wait for solid state batteries?

Travis Logan (: 29:30

Yeah, I mean that, man, of course that applies to any tech more than anything else, right? It's like, I a new Apple laptop. But they come out with a new one every June or September, October, whatever those different Apple events are, right? It's like, do I wait for that one? I don't know what it'll be. And I have a 3D printer and they're like, the brand is Bamboo Labs and it's amazing printer. And they've been talking about a new one coming out.

the end of last year and then at the end of last year they postponed it to be first quarter of this year and they still haven't announced it with nobody knows what it is their speculation of course and like I don't need I needed a new printer and I've been waiting and I shoot myself in the foot by waiting like am I making my life harder by waiting is it gonna be worth it at the end when I even get it

Erik (: 30:17

You know what's interesting about the shopping experience as well in the auto world is, which I've been happy about is they've been communicating over text.

Travis Logan (: 30:28

yeah, that's nice.

Erik (: 30:29

which I think might be a good transition into SMS marketing. Because I know you've been doing a lot of work with our integration partners in that aspect. So why don't we kick into that.

Travis Logan (: 30:42

I am in awe of that transition right there. Wow, that's segue. I was seriously professional right there. Wow. Okay, I'm like stunned. Hold on. me, me. Okay, SMS. Yeah, I just wrote an article yesterday.

Erik (: 30:52

I gotta be good at something, maybe it's that.

Erik (: 30:59

Hahaha!

Travis Logan (: 31:08

freaking nailed a video for this product article, a support article I wrote on the Just You Know site. Nailed a video on the first try just to find out that it didn't record my audio, so I got to redo that. But anyways, the article was about the best type of on-site SMS lead capture strategy. And I'm not...

It's not talking specific to the targeting aspect, like who and when to show it. That's a whole strategy in its own. But it was more referencing the design, the experience the person sees and how they interact with it. If you have any experience, whoever's watching this, with capturing SMS, you undoubtedly already know.

the ever-changing landscape of policies around it, the single versus dual opt-in, do you get that reply why text that you have to reply why to to actually be opted in and subscribed or not? How do you avoid that because that lowers your overall subscribed opt-in rates? So this article talks about like a hybrid approach. And it...

So if you're on a desktop.

Let's just assume, mean, hopefully you have your phone on you, but you might not. And if you're on a desktop computer and you're a visitor website and it's asking you to opt into an SMS, generally speaking and traditionally, you're typing in your SMS number and hitting submit. Well, depending on which SMS platform you use, as a reminder, Just Do Knows Ignostic, we integrate with these different SMS platforms. We don't send SMS messages ourselves. So depending on which SMS platform

Travis Logan (: 33:00

you're using. Clavio, PostScript, know, Attentive, lots of others, SMSBomb now, Yoppo for instance. on which one you're using, they may or may not let you have a single opt-in strategy and that may or may not depend on whether that strategy is with a third-party vendor like you just do know.

Erik (: 33:10

know them.

Travis Logan (: 33:27

Single opt-in versus double opt-in for those you don't know, the double opt-in when it comes to SMS is that reply why text message situation. Single opt-in means you say opt-in and you're you're opted in, you're subscribed.

So with Klaviyo as an example, they allow us to single opt in somebody via their API. So desktop-wise, you can use a combination of Just You Know's powerful SMS verification feature that we had recently launched that will verify in real time. So I put in my phone number on a Just You Know design on a website. when I hit submit, it will verify instantly whether or not that phone number is active.

mobile number and it verifies this against the carriers. Like this is not some random list that is partially maintained or anything like this. The mobile carriers have to submit their active user list, phone number lists, to a centralized hub and that is what we were communicating with. So.

You put in that number, it verifies it. Okay, yes, this is actually a mobile number that is active, submits it with Klaviyo. It's fully off to it, boom, done. I don't have to get out my phone, get a text message, reply a Y or anything.

with the next SMS provider, that might not be the case, right? So you have another provider that doesn't allow that, and they don't for one reason or another, I won't get into that, but you get that reply why. So a workaround for a lot of these providers, and this is to some degree has a higher opt-in rate anyways, user engagement rate anyways, is for mobile users,

Travis Logan (: 35:18

the just do no experience might say tap here to subscribe. And when you tap that button, it opens up your SMS messenger app that you have on your phone, like you're sending an SMS and it prefills in the phone number with the short code or toll free number provided by the SMS provider for that merchant and the message prefills in like, hey, I wanna subscribe. And maybe it puts in a keyword in there.

and they hit send, that subscribes them, single opt-in method, instantly takes you back to the Just Do No experience, and the Just Do No experience flips over to the next screen, whatever that may be, probably showing, you the discount code. So that's kind of the hybrid model. So you want to show the form to the desktop users and the tap to text, or what we call our SMS opt-in button in our new platform, to the mobile users. And so that's article I wrote yesterday.

Erik (: 36:09

So the question I have and it always leads to like the 80 percentile of what people are doing. What are the 80 percent of people doing and why are they doing it that way versus single versus double?

Travis Logan (: 36:24

I would say more than 80 % are just doing the typical form submission route. And they're doing it because that's what the templates that they were provided do or the agency they're using knows how to do or whatever. Attentive was a player that really pushed the tap to text scene.

Erik (: 36:32

the single.

Travis Logan (: 36:49

They really pushed that a while ago. So of course, if anybody's on a tentive, they've been doing that for a while. But as the landscape, know, and a tentive has been lobbying, to be honest, about making it about these privacy laws. And it's not just privacy, these opt-in laws so that we're going to get political here. But so.

in favor of their technology, their patented technology and things like that. it's not that I necessarily disagree. I don't want people to be able to put in my phone number when opting in, whether it's on accident or on purpose. But.

Anyways, landscape's changed there and as a result, we find ourselves more and more in a, well, now we're requiring double opt-in because of these traditional form submission features. different companies are looking at different ways to combat that because at the end of the day,

that double opt-in reduces your opt-in rate significantly. Think about somebody who's like, yeah, sure, I'll double opt-in, or I mean, I'll subscribe. They get the SMS that says reply why, but they also get the discount code right away. And they're like.

Well, now I don't have to reply why. Now keep in mind with SMS, if you're anything like me, doesn't matter. At the end of the day, I'm going to instantly text stop or on the very first text I get, marketing text I get, I'm going to hit stop. But we do know it's not a question. We know that it works. Just like back in the day when people used to think who would want emails. The answer was it works.

Erik (: 38:26

So between the big players, majority are doing single opt-in.

Travis Logan (: 38:34

We always advocate to do single, I mean, you want to do single opt-in unless you have some serious guidelines, whether you're in industry, health or something like that, you don't wanna mess with it, right? Or you require, state you're in, whatever it may be. Again, this is an ever-changing landscape, but.

Erik (: 38:51

So when it comes with the integrations that you're managing with the SMS, can you kind of break down a few of them and how, this is a lot to manage for us having to build on it, because each one has their own methodologies to achieve this. How are you approaching that?

Travis Logan (: 39:02

Yes. Yes.

Travis Logan (: 39:09

Yeah, I mean, I'll talk about like, know, Klaviyo, like I mentioned, allows the single opt-in. You can edit any list within your Klaviyo account, SMS or email and say, make this a single opt-in. That means our API allows us to submit that information as a single opt-in. So you don't have to think about it. Like you could just do the typical form submit and it'll always be single opt-in. It'll work great. Then you have somewhere in the middle, you got maybe somebody like Postscript who,

their API does not allow single opt-in. So the form submission will be a double opt-in,

the tap to text or SMS opt-in button through that method and using a keyword, they do allow single opt-in. So that's where my hybrid approach satisfies and works very good for that situation. And then you have the other end of the spectrum is somebody like a tenant who will not allow single opt-in from their API and also will not allow single opt-in from the SMS opt-in button we provide or anybody for that matter provides because they've locked it down

purposefully to only allow it from their own. there's really, unfortunately, we can do about that, about getting, making a workable single opt-in method when it comes to somebody like a 10f. They're the only ones I know of that just blatantly block it.

Erik (: 40:36

It's kind of an interesting time with SMS marketing, really where it's at. We've watched it emerge the last few years. you, what's your prediction for this? Is every platform just going to lock everything down? it, you know?

Travis Logan (: 40:48

Yeah

Travis Logan (: 40:53

Well, it's going to get even weirder because of AI. And I'll give you an example. You can tell AI, there's certain AIs you can tell to go buy something for you today, right? Whether they, some are capable of making phone calls and literally talking to a real person on the other end and purchasing something or making an appointment to get your haircut.

There's also ones that could buy, you could say, hey, I need you to go buy, replenish this on Amazon. I need you to go buy this from my favorite shoe. My favorite shoe, there's a Nike being released, a new Nike shoe being released. I need you to find where it's in stock and buy it for me now, right? Okay. Sign your kids up for camp, exactly. So AI is gonna go do that for you. You know what AI is, the next thing AI is gonna do? AI is gonna see a just you know, pop-up.

Erik (: 41:38

sign my kids up for camp.

Travis Logan (: 41:49

that offers 10 % off. And AI is going to ask, either has already asked the person instructing AI, if I get an opportunity to get you a discount by way of giving them your email or your phone number, do I have your permission? And they're going to do that.

That's gonna further complicate things. I know this for sure. I've talked to people about this in the industry, in the SMS and email industry. This will further complicate and there's gonna be more policies built around this. And these policies will be state level policies, of course, just to throw more wrenches at it. So yeah, it's gonna get worse, worse, better, however you wanna phrase it. It's gonna get more in depth.

Erik (: 42:32

What that really pops in my mind is thinking of retailing not back in the day with housing, storing coupons, honey, where it's at, and our belief that retailers should always own that experience and be open with them, with their customers. an AI bot to go find you the best coupon. If they think about the applications of AI and trying to leverage it to save me time from what I might.

You know, my methods of life is like, go find me a coupon. I'll scour the internet and plug it in for me. What did, you remember like, there, what are some popular AI assistants out there right now? Like personal assistants.

Travis Logan (: 43:08

Yeah.

Okay.

Travis Logan (: 43:21

I haven't done a deep, sounds like I have, know I'm somebody you talk to and they sound like I know everything. But I haven't really done a deep dive in the different, know, AI's available, marketed, whatever. I've looked at, there's one like Sintra.

that has different bots available. You sign up and it has different bots available for, you know, of course, like all the different tasks you might have. They're trained to do the different things. You have your writer, you got your social person, you got your SEO bot, everything. You get access to all of it. I was playing with that one and it's, it's more...

It's helpful, it's also annoying. It really shows me we got a long ways to go still with these. These bots aren't talking to each other. I have to tell the same bot, or I have to tell the next bot stuff that I just told the last bot. And it's like, guys, why aren't you talking to each other?

And they tend to forget things too, which is pretty interesting. That's something I haven't seen with AI yet, but it's what it is. So there's those, Chat GPT, it's free, it's amazing, it's great. But the Gemini, Google AI, which is free also, and of course within Reason,

is pretty insane at some things, not as good as chatGPD, OpenAI at other things. So, and then there's just all the ones in between that are more specifically trained in certain models, you know, depending on what you're using them for.

Erik (: 45:00

So we're constantly encouraging our own team to be like, leverage AI where you can, where it makes sense in your role with Just Uno. I know you've been leveraging AI with some integration work.

Travis Logan (: 45:14

I use it every day. If I have a question, it doesn't hurt to ask AI, it takes two seconds, it might answer it. Whether the question is how to write a small function, like programming function, how to convert something. I asked it the other day, what was the difference between X and Y, just for an explanation, and answered. It is a personal assistant that knows something, at least, about everything.

Erik (: 45:17

every day.

Erik (: 45:43

So we're constantly talking with retailers about understanding their customers, understanding their visitors, how they interact with their site, with their product, with shopping. I'm going put you on the spot. What's your initial implementation of AI with Just Do No?

Travis Logan (: 46:03

well initial implement as as in that we've already done or that you

Erik (: 46:08

Not what we've done with product recs, but the practicality of me coming in and as a retailer and saying, logging in and a little Justino bot pops up and goes, welcome. But it won't be. Let's hear it.

Travis Logan (: 46:13

Got it.

Travis Logan (: 46:20

I can tell you what it won't be. It won't be what everybody else has done, which is, hey, would you like to rewrite this with AI?

I don't need it to write in just, know, you're not writing paragraphs in just, know, you're not writing blog posts or anything like that. You know, you're writing, you have a title that says save 10 % off. Sure, it would be, would it be useful to some people to say, ask AI to give them 10 versions of that?

to rewrite that for them maybe, but you know what would be a lot more useful is an AI bot that doesn't suggest what to write, doesn't say, hey, do want me to rewrite this? It says, just let me test different versions of this with different highly converting titles.

Don't you worry about what those are. I'm gonna test, I'm gonna narrow it down over the next two weeks by, you know, I'll throw out the poor performing ones immediately and I'll keep narrowing it down, narrowing it down until I get literally the highest converting title that is ever imaginable. Like that's the way to tackle that. I'm always preaching that there's two really important aspects to software. It's...

It's stuff that makes it easier to build whatever it is you're building inside the tool. AI is great for that. But also on the flip side, it's stuff that makes the tool be able to perform better to reach the goal. If your goal is conversion rates,

Travis Logan (: 48:05

Sure, you can, I want you to be able to create a just, you know, design and workflow as easy as possible. Yeah. It's going to be freaking awesome for that. Like, Hey, just prompt. need one that instead of it, you telling AI how to target people. want it. I want you to ask AI. What would you suggest based on this? Or you tell me based on my numbers, what you just suggest, what you would suggest. Oh, also, could you build it for me?

Great, that's where AI is gonna be insanely powerful. But then on the flip side, don't forget, is there stuff AI can do in real time or learn from on the user and the user's like personalized journey to make it easier and better to get that user to convert?

Erik (: 48:52

think that's one of the most exciting areas of, know, look at the clients we've been working with the last few weeks. You know, we often hear, hey, my goal is to get my email list to 500,000. Get me there. Well, that's where our team comes in, analyzes the site, looks at their segments, looks at popular sections of their website, understand their business, you know, get the reporting analytics of, you know, finding out their deal sections, the most popular. That's where the revenue is coming from.

All that can be done with AI. And so if your first goal is lead capture, well, let's not use human mind power to figure this stuff out. Let's build our visitor segments with AI, connect it with all their external data as well, and then let it run.

Travis Logan (: 49:43

Yeah, and the AI is using the human power. The human power is what has led to the results to date, right? And so AI comes in there and looks at those results, and it goes, okay, this solved for this, and it solved pretty well. So, and this did not solve as well. Well, we're gonna go ahead and start on this, and we're gonna iterate from there. So it's a combination, but...

AI is never going to replace humans, but it will certainly make our lives easier.

Erik (: 50:17

So we're talking about what we're solving. Let's finish up this week by talking about maybe what we didn't solve.

Erik (: 50:27

Why did we not get done this week?

Travis Logan (: 50:30

I mean, most of the tasks that I have personally, I'm here supporting our, you know, our more advanced strategies that.

our clients or our own team think of, which is fun and amazing. And it's empowering and it's for the better of Just Do No And as product. So it gives me all these ideas of like, wow, yeah, we can do that. We can do it this way today. But now I'm thinking from a product standpoint, okay, let's make this like an easy flip on switch. How do we do that? So I have this never ending list of wants.

and things to do, but at the same time I have this never-ending funnel of incoming ideas and questions that I am being involved with directly with clients in our own team and stuff. So it's management problem one-on-one for me. But yeah, there's lots of my own tasks that I haven't been able to accomplish.

Erik (: 51:38

noticed that you did two things this week. One, you became active on LinkedIn, so I have to congratulate you on that. And which was, it was really nice to hear your own kind of personal thoughts on where you are with Just Una, what you're experiencing, because we get, we're running in our own directions every week. So that was cool. And then I think it was great for the team to hear that.

because you're expressing points of views that you don't get in typical meetings we have, because every meeting for you is like a fire drill. So I thought that was cool. The other was support docs. Product documentation is something that plagues, I think, every company. And we've been working to get better. I think that's an area that we mentioned a little earlier.

we started recording that I was trying to connect my iPhone camera to Riverside FM and their help docs weren't getting me there so I just googled it and Gemini gave its first AI breakdown and then there's a YouTube video of an independent person that is helping provide the information. What are we gonna do about our you know with our new platform how in-depth it is?

The question we're working to solve and iterate on is our product documentation.

Travis Logan (: 53:15

Well, I mean, yeah, this is like, because I've been writing product docs too, right, as you just said. And I hate to give AI too much credit, which I've been in this conversation, but holy crap, does it help? I'm a very short answered person by nature, because I'm like all about efficiency. And it bites me in butt sometimes with basic communication skills.

So when it comes to support articles, I can just ask it. I can put in my answer. Here's the problem, here's my answer. And it fluffs it and adds in the in-betweens and then gives me some ideas and things like that. So it's made it a lot easier. I also don't know why I can't, this is for all the entrepreneurs out there that need their next idea. Why can't I ask AI to look at our Slack?

and my email, and all the questions that have been asked and my answers, or other pertinent people's answers, and make me docs. Fill my support knowledge base with docs for every single one of those questions and answers. Also answer real-time chat on my site based on that.

Erik (: 54:38

David doing that at Captivate?

Travis Logan (: 54:40

They were doing a version of that. Their chat would do that, I don't think it created to some degree, but I don't think it created docs, like a whole support knowledge base, static knowledge base is based on all those things. yeah, yeah, that would be pretty insane.

Erik (: 54:42

check back in a moment.

Erik (: 54:53

Yeah.

We need that. think it goes into bootstrapping a company and a lot of the material conversations I'm hearing right now on LinkedIn or whatever is people talking about if I started a company today, it's all about not, don't build a team up. You don't want to build a gigantic team. You want as small as team as possible and build as efficiently as possible to hit profitability.

Travis Logan (: 55:25

And I think it entirely depends on if you're bootstrapped or if you have a small amount of funding or you have some ungodly amount of funding and what those goals are. It are usually very different based on those, but yeah, there's certainly plenty of situations where I would agree with you.

Erik (: 55:25

which is a different tune.

Erik (: 55:43

And what's that balance of humans getting in the way?

Travis Logan (: 55:46

Yeah. It's noise. Humans make noise. For sure.

Erik (: 55:51

Okay, and when you said it, you're referring to chat GPT when you were writing your articles. Yeah. Just confirming. Okay.

Travis Logan (: 55:57

yeah.

Yeah. It's overall, like just in general, it's an amazing general, generally sourced or whatever you'd call it, learned, LOM AI tool.

Erik (: 56:16

It'd great to have a summary of consortium, sort of, well, what was trying to say, it'd great to get everyone who's managing businesses to figure out what aspects of AI they're using so we can kind of get the best tool set of AI to apply what they're doing.

Travis Logan (: 56:36

Yeah, I think by the time you took all those answers, you got all those people to answer it, you took all those answers and you put it into some sort of report or document, there's new AI. It's moving that fast, it's ridiculous. it's like, that's changing on a weekly basis, I'd say. And there's some big players out there, obviously aren't going anywhere, but there's new ones that are popping up all the time that are really good, I think.

knowledge of what their specific purpose is.

Erik (: 57:10

time okay well I think it's Friday

Travis Logan (: 57:17

Did we start this at 11? We've been going. Yeah, 11.30. Yeah.

Erik (: 57:20

Oh my god, it's 1? Well no, it was like 11... 13.

Travis Logan (: 57:25

You're going to make like, we got the next eight weeks worth of content right here.

Erik (: 57:29

Yeah.

Travis Logan (: 57:36

perfect timing too. I hear my garage door open. My kids must be coming home.

Erik (: 57:39

Okay, I'm going play around with editing this thing.

Travis Logan (: 57:42

Yeah, yeah, good luck with that. That's good. All right, buddy. That was good. Bye.

Erik (: 57:44

Alright, cool. I'm in. Alright, later.